Falling into — Practising…

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

The Greek language is different to the English language and some things are hard to translate from the Greek to English. The Greek has a tense called the present, continuous active tense. So if you understand the Greek present, continuous active tense and where it is applied, there is a big difference in falling into sin (which we all do at times) as opposed to wilfully practising sin. See THIS youtube to see it explained. It’s about two thirds in. A just man will sin seven times a day and quickly get up again…

Luk 17:4 Even if he sins against you seven times in a day and comes back to you seven times and says, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.”

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10 thoughts on “Falling into — Practising…

  1. Hi Vee! That was a very good video. Love Prasch’s teaching. I’m going to get a little semantic for the fun of it because people really split hairs over this issue. Maybe we can get a conversation going.

    These days isn’t almost all sin done willingly? Most times we know right from wrong. We may lose our patience with someone and sin but we knew it was wrong. Would this be a case of falling?

    And then also, if we are practicing sin, then as Prasch says in the video… there is no assurance of salavation. Is that percieved assurance or is our salavation really lost? Were we saved to begin with then? Also.. what is the time frame for “practicing”.. a day, a week, years? Is repentance and restoration an option after that or is it too late, since there remains no sacrafice for sin??

    🙂

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    • Yeah…. those are VERY good points. I think that we have the Holy Spirit in us to help us conform to Christ. (Rom 8:29). And we are clay … Rom 9:21 Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? So the way I see it, we are to be worked on and to allow God through His Holy Spirit to form us, and discipline us so that we can become more Christlike.

      I think that the whole willingly bit is a tough one. I am sure that there are those who are saved but willingly commit adultery and/or other grievous sins over and over again, despite the fact that this grieves the Holy Spirit. Can people like this go so far that their hearts have become so hardened against the Holy Spirit that they no longer hear Him?

      It makes me wonder about the verses where Jesus says that only HIS sheep hear His voice and not one of them are going to be lost. But what happens if His sheep no longer hear Him.

      Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
      Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

      For me personally, I just want to live my life knowing that I have assured salvation but I ALSO want to be more Christ like. I want to be in tune with the will of God, and I want to be moulded by my Potter.

      I am speaking a little bit from experience here too. My dad was a Christian for over 40 years. Then something happened to him. I don’t know what, but he became an atheist. Am I to believe that he was never a Christian EVER. He was the most God fearing man I have ever met, it was obvious to ALL those around him that he loved the Lord for saving him. He understood what sin was. Now, he says that there is no such thing as sin. He says that people should do what’s best for the collective community, and those things aren’t necessarily moral things, but rather things that are common sense. Now, if dad died today, would he be saved? Or does he fit into the Hebrews 6 category? I guess this issue since dad’s decision against God has plagued me. I am not sure if I can believe OSAS but I do KNOW that you work out your salvation, whatever that may mean. But there are plenty of things in the bible that point to OSAS and working out your salvation in trembling and fear. This working out is done through HIM so that HE gets the glory. But what if a person refuses, or just stops listening?

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  2. I remember you telling this about your dad before and that would certainly be something heavy on ones heart. Like you, I want to live my life with that assurance of salvation and I want my family to as well!!

    We are complex and only God can discern our hearts. He is righteous in His actions regarding us. It reminds me of another verse in Romans –

    Rom 1:21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but BECAME futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

    In verse 31 of the same chapter it says they became “undiscerning” and in verse 32… even though KNOWing the righteous judgement of God still went ahead and PRACTICED evil and approved of it.

    According to Gill, this chapter is especially speaking about those who know the truth but never receive The Truth (salvation). It makes one wonder then if those who profess to be saved and practice the same things were really saved? And to know the truth and continually reject it would seem to be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit… there certainly is NOT any other sacrifice for us but Jesus!!

    Terrifying! As you point out, there are those verses that point to once saved always saved AND working out our salvation with trembling and fear. When a ‘once saved person’ leaves the will of God are they “un-born” or is it a case of being out of relationship with the Father? Round and round it goes and I don’t mean to cause confusion for anyone who may be reading but I know these are the questions people have.

    For me, my heart is often comforted with His word to ABIDE in Him. We are be-ing sanctified. We easily forget that our God is an awesome God full of grace and mercy but also… He is not mocked. To knowingly practice sin is a dangerous game and who knows when God will have enough of it. As you say, He is the potter.

    Seems to boil down to love. He loved us so much that He gave His only son for us. If we believe that then we should love the Lord with all or hearts, soul, mind and strength… and our neighbor as ourselves.

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    • I think that I may have just had a lightbulb moment. In regards to my dad and others like him. If you were to have asked him in his 40+ years of being a Christian, “Are you saved?”. He would have answered with a resounding “YES!”. Now, if you were to ask him if he is saved, he would say, “Saved from what and into what?” He would answer… that he doesn’t believe that he needs saving and that he just doesn’t sin the way in which the bible calls sin.

      Recently he had his old pastor say to him, that he still thinks that he would be saved because of a decision he made many, many years ago. So, according to this pastor, Dad would be going to heaven against his will, right?

      Now… what if we think that to willingly sin is the free will of being able to reject Jesus and His atoning on the cross. Which is pretty much what my Dad has done. This is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which my Dad had many years ago once tasted and participated of. So this whole ‘willingly sinning’ is not so much a moral issue, but rather an issue of rejecting God whom you once knew.

      What say you Lorrie 😀

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  3. Further, this makes sense of the Hebrew passage where it says that you can’t re-crucify Christ as this has been done once and for all. So perhaps this whole ‘willingly sinning’ is something that needs to be defined a bit better than doing what’s morally and biblically right.

    Then if we think about the moral sinning that is described in the bible we have to look at the bigger picture. Idolatry and adultery are on par with one another spiritually, Israel committed idolatry and became an adulterer. And if we look at 1 John 5:13 ff…

    13 I write fthese things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

    14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.

    15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

    16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.

    17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

    18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God pprotects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

    19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

    20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and teternal life.

    21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

    The question is WHAT is the sin that leads to death? And how does this relate to idols? Remember these words were spoken to believers, NOT the unsaved.

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  4. Hmmm … and wow! That is some light bulb moment!

    THE sin that leads to death is the sin of blasphemy. I have always thought that this sin could only be committed by unsaved people… that it was a rejection of the Holy Spirit’s revelation and wooing to come and be saved… that if we, in turn did not come, did not accept Jesus’ sacrifice for us then we were (naturally and supernaturally) done for! There is no other way to be saved… no other sacrifice.

    Gill says of 5:16….There is a sin unto death; which is not only deserving of death, as every other sin is, but which certainly and inevitably issues in death in all that commit it, without exception; and that is the sin against the Holy Ghost, which is neither forgiven in this world nor in that to come, and therefore must be unto death; it is a sinning wilfully, not in a practical, but doctrinal way, after a man has received the knowledge of the truth; it is a wilful denial of the truth of the Gospel, particularly that peace, pardon, righteousness, eternal life, and salvation, are by Jesus Christ, contrary to the light of his mind, and this joined with malice and obstinacy; so that there is no more or other sacrifice for such a sin..

    But, if one takes in the whole council and looks at who the BROTHER is at the beginning of the verse –

    1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

    – and sorry to lean so heavily on Gill but he says…

    1Jn 5:16 If anyone see his brother sin,…. Those who have such an interest at the throne of grace, and such boldness and freedom there, should make use of it for others, as well as themselves, and particularly for fallen believers; for a “brother”; not in a natural or civil sense, but in a spiritual sense, one that is judged to be born again, and belongs to the family and household of God, and is a member of a Gospel church; and so is under the watch, inspection, and care of the saints; and is observed to sin, as the best of men are not without it, nor the commission of it, in thought, word, or deed: and this sin of his is a sin which is not unto death; every sin, even the least sin, is in its own nature mortal, or deserving of death; the proper wages of sin is death, yea, death eternal; yet none of the sins of God’s elect are unto death, or issue in death, in fact; which is owing not to any different nature there is in their sins, or to their good works which counterbalance them; but to the grace of God, and to the blood and righteousness of Christ, by which they are pardoned and justified, and freed from obligation to punishment, or eternal death, the just demerits of them: but how should another man know that a brother’s sin is not unto death, when it is of the same nature and kind with another man’s? it is known by this, that he does not continue in it; he does not live in the constant commission of it; his life is not a course of iniquity; that sin he sins is not a governing one in him; though he falls into it, he rises up out of it through divine grace, and abides not in it; and he has a sense of it, and is sorry for it, after a godly sort, loaths it, and himself for it; is ashamed of it, ingenuously confesses it, and mourns over it and forsakes it: now when any strong believer or spiritual man sees or knows that a brother has sinned, and this is his case…

    So it is obvious then that a Christian can fall and commit the sin of blasphemy. It breaks my heart. I cannot grasp how one can know the truth and then so confidently turn away from it. A part of me screams that there is no way the person truly KNOWS what they are doing – how could they? In the moment they are face to face with eternity are they not going to claim that they did not know what they were doing? I know God’s justice is perfect – I am so thankful that He is our judge… but I do cry out for His mercy when I think of people like your own father. I want to plead with God… is not he (your dad) still your child even though he states that he is not?

    I could say all day long that my mom is not my mom and tell the world so but would it be true? Once she has born me am I not always her daughter? And yet, it’s a legal fact that a court (a judge) could change that and take away all rights of such.

    The verse even states that we are not expected to pray about the one in sin that leads to death. Is it hopeless then? I bet you do pray for your father… It doesn’t say that we cannot. As long as they are still alive is there no hope?

    Gill again – – I do not say that he shall pray for it; the apostle does not expressly forbid to pray for the forgiveness of this sin, yet what he says amounts unto it; he gives no encouragement to it, or any hopes of succeeding, but rather the reverse; and indeed where this sin is known, or can be known, it is not to be prayed for, because it is irremissible; but as it is a most difficult point to know when a man has sinned it, the apostle expresses himself with great caution.

    Weighty stuff… very very. I find it obvious within myself that I want the OSAS doctrine to be true and yet…

    Rom 3:3-6 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS, AND MAY OVERCOME WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED.” But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?

    Thank you Vee for digging in with me!!!! Luv ya ♥

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  5. Thanks for your comment Lorrie. It was a good one. And you are right, I do pray for my dad. Who knows what will happen? My husband’s mum was married to a Scott’s who was just like my dad. He was a believer, then in his older years he just became an atheist. There was no talking to him. Then, he ended up getting a brain tumour and couldn’t see, speak or hear. He lost all of those functions.

    We didn’t live close by at the time so we couldn’t be with him before he died. But my sister-law who is a very wise person spent time with him and just held his hand and prayed. What she prayed was this…. even though he couldn’t see, hear or speak…. perhaps he was made to go through this so ALL other worldly distractions vanished away and were silenced and blocked completely out. But in that complete forced silence — which lasted a few months without much pain at all — perhaps God spoke to him in that silence.

    Who knows how long God’s patient and how persistent He is?

    Oh, and by the way. I agree with what Gill wrote about who the brother is. Even at the start of this whole chapter it is directed at God’s children and it’s specifically written about our eternal life. That’s the context of the whole thing. Some commentators have said that ‘the sin unto death’ means that it is a physical death that is spoken about here. They say that reading through their prism of OSAS, but as I stated… the context is talking about God’s children and about our eternal life.

    1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God: and whosoever loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
    1Jn 5:2 Hereby we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do his commandments.

    1Jn 5:11 And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
    1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
    1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.

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  6. Also, I wonder if the ending verse of this passage…

    21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

    relates to the first commandment ” Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.”?

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  7. I’ve heard that too, about the passage being a reference to “physical” death… it’s not though and I think it’s so wrong to look through any prism of our own making!! That’s how false religions (idols) come to be. That’s how we deceive ourselves and others (Bell’s new book comes to mind).

    I certainly DO think that the verse about idols at the end relates to the first commandment. If we are serving anyone but the one true God Yahweh then we have idols and those idols are endless…. whatever it is – food, the environment, money, etc, etc., anything that we become religious about or any ‘ism’ where it is of greater importance…

    I am in total agreement with you ♥ That was fun.

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