For over 2 hours I spoke to my dad about his new found Atheism. He has very definately become an atheistic humanist, or agnostic, we both are unsure about that one still. I feel totally exhausted by the conversation we just had. He lives for the day — actually the moment — and denies that anyone can really know about yesterday’s history or even trust any written form of an historical account, even secular recent history. He said… unless you were there you cannot know for sure that such and such happened.
I asked him about how we all got here on planet earth. His response was that he did not believe in evolution, or creation. He doesn’t know and it doesn’t concern him, because no-one can prove it because no-one was there.
I asked him about sin. He said that is the biggest con job of all, along with a so called man called Jesus and his resurrection, because if you believe in sin then you have to believe that you are not a good person and only God through this so called Jesus can save you from it.
He believes in the social good which produces productivity in humanity… the Golden Rule which every religion and atheist can believe in. You don’t do to others what you wouldn’t want done to yourself.
I spoke about social laws and how they change within cultures and times and are relative to the age. He said that all laws have to be fair, and productive, in this way he can still say that homosexuality is wrong as it is a path that leads to death, an unproductive life. They cannot reproduce, therefore it is unnatural and that is the only way he would debate that, on a purely humanistic view of productivity.
We spoke about prophecies and fulfilment. He said that if you write enough of them some would come true after any length of time.
One thing he did say that interested me a great deal is this… he said that he has never in his 40 years of asking God to show him that he exists, has he had an encounter with something or an encounter that changed his atheism. He has not had a born again experience. He said if he was to have God knock him down and show to him Himself, then he would believe. He has asked for this for over 40 years, and nothing has happened!
When he came out and admitted his atheism to one and all he still gave God — who he disbelieves in — a chance to show him God is some way or form… but nothing has ever happened to prove to him in His existence. Nowadays he doesn’t even challenge God to prove Himself. He knows he cannot prove there is no God, but he also knows that no-one can prove that there is God! He admits that Atheism is a faith, just like Christianity is a faith. He admits that he has not sinned against some spiritual thing that is only written about by men who believe in the same spiritual thing, yet he admits that he has erred against mankind is some way, yet this is not sin, it is whatever we do that hurts another, and is found not to be socially productive.
Remember he has had 40 years of constant bible study to come up with arguments against a book that he regards as just man’s understanding of something that is made up to bring people into line with the common good. Taoism is something that is brought to mind here.
He said that the biggest con job of all is the concept of sin, the resurrection and the concept of heaven and hell.
Yet, when I said that perhaps his quest should lay in how we got here on planet earth at all… he just doesn’t care! He said that creation or evolution does not answer that question, and that question does not even bother him at all, all he cares about is the day, today, the moment.
When I spoke to him, I told him that according to the bible it is clear that he has not been born again of the spirit, he said… What spirit. There is no spirit.
He is the most convincing humanist I have ever met. He knows all of the arguments before I have even mentioned them! He knows the bible back to front and he does not trust any written word, as it is all just perceived and not necessarily truthfully perceived. I even said that he could even deny the holocaust with that kind of thinking… He agreed and said yes, that is true. He was very honest about it.
I am just blown away by all of this.
If you want to be filled in by my dad’s journey into Atheism read…