Feeling the tension!!!
I am just reading about Calvinism, Arminianism and Open Theism…
WHOOOOOOooooaaahhhh……AHHAHAHAhahahahaha…
Head reeling stuff!
Remember the tension, the tension……..
It’s all about the tension between the Sovereignty of God and the free will of man!
Divine sovereignty and human responsibility are not in the end two doctrines at odds, at least in the mind of God. While we may not see logically how the two fit together, ultimately they must for God’s Word declares both to be true. When all the dust has settled we will find that these two seemingly opposites are not at war. They are not enemies but friends, and rather than fight over them they should both be embraced.
God is absolutely sovereign. Nothing occurs outside of His will and control. Nothing happens that He has not determined, even if we do not understand God’s methodology. At the same time, God so created man that his actions are free; his choices are his own; he is responsible for how he lives. Such a conclusion perhaps satisfies very few, but I believe it is faithful to the biblical data that we have been given. To God none of this is a mystery. One day, in glory, He will most certainly unravel all of this for us. In the meantime, let us rest in our all-wise and powerful God as we live for His glory. Gary E Gilley
Yep, it can be head-reeling stuff all-right. aha
Whats headache material, is all the different off-shoots (hyper, classic, etc) that are found in Calvinism and even in Arminianism..that has to be waded through..
My brothers I feel for you! And yet this subject has been one that has been made a subject of discussion for me in some essay work and what the Lord has consistantly revealed about it. What I have learned is this: When we talk about free will at least from our human perspective (and certainly from the understanding that is placed upon it in this postmodern age under which we are all affected) we tend to think of it as polarized against God’s Sovereignity somehow. And therein is revealed an error in what free will is. It seems impossible to our mind to conceive of a “limited” free will and have it be “free” and yet that is just what it is. If free will were not limited, there would be absolute chaos and God would not have Sovereign will. In other words, we have free will within a context. In my short essay “Black”, I used the metaphor of being in a room and having complete and utter freedom within that “room” …yet there is something more. Let me share it with you….
Black
Awhile back, a friend from India recommended a great film to me called “Black”. As I watched it, it became clearer that this was a modern-day retelling of the Helen Keller story. As many of you reading this may remember, Helen Keller was born deaf, mute, and blind. Helen’s world of communication, like the older girl in the film, was completely dark. Her perceptions of things had a perverse meaning because she could not see or hear the real world and the real life around her. In essence, she was trapped into believing what wasn’t real. She was hurting herself and others until a teacher came and bridged a connection between her mind and the world that was unseen. To do this, he has to capture her and put her and himself in a room where she is forced to trust him alone and lay her fear aside. She has complete freedom…but only within that room. In the long run, that little room became her ticket to true freedom.
A few days later, I read about an inspiring experience from Dr. James MacDonald of a Walk in the Word ministries about a bird who had mistakenly flown inside his house, now trapped by fear and in danger of hurting itself because of its new environment. The only way to save the bird and keep it from hurting itself was to capture it. It was the only way to give it true freedom. He goes on to say:” Little did it realize that secure in my hands it was better off than thrashing around the room. As quickly as I could, I got to the front door, launched the bird in the air, and it flew away. Sometimes we feel like the worst thing that could happen to us is to be confined in God’s hands. The Bible often presents us with choices that will form boundaries around our lives. Too often we fly from this protection, banging into windows and walls, looking for escape. If we submit to God’s Word, we fear we’ll lose our autonomy or worse, our freedom-all the while killing ourselves in our frantic independence.”
As I thought about both stories, I realized how much they illustrated what it is like for us when we get trapped by Satan’s deceptions and the pull of evil, doing his will rather than what is right and good (2 Timothy 2:26). It’s then that we need God to put us in that “closed room”, to limit our “free will” just long enough to save us, to open our eyes to the truth, and set us on the path to true freedom. We may be afraid we are losing our freedom but the reality is that where we are, we have already lost it. Like the blind girl, we have lost our senses and what we perceive is not real. God, in his love, exercises His sovereignty, keeping a healthy tension between our “free will” and our need for real freedom. When we cooperate, he sets us free from the trap. DailyQuote: “Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.” — 2 Timothy 2:25, 26
© DailyQuote, M.S. Reed, 2007
You see, once we decide to do anything that opposes the moral will of God, we have by default been deceived into doing the enemy’s will. We just don’t see it…until sometimes it is too late. It looks to us too much like we have a “third” option. But we really don’t. There are but 2 choices: God’s will or Satan’s. The real deception is in thinking we can use “free will” and fall into that group of people who are the “nice” people: not exactly all sold out to God, but doing ok. But as C.S. Lewis brought out in Mere Chrisitanity, God is not about making “nice” people, He is about making Sons of God. These are the ones who do exactly what his parable of the pearl of great price talks about: they sell everything and buy it.
I think when we place too high of an emphasis on anything in this world, we begin to see less than even that “through a glass darkly” viewpoint and that includes the idea of our free will. Sometimes we can even make an idol of that and miss the point of God’s ways of dealing with us out of a love and wisdom that far surpasses our own. I have seen God close doors and open only the ones he wants opened in my life and in others, all the while taking care to let me choose whether to walk through that “open door” or not.
hi, i read your message on forum….me too i cant login my blog…have you some help? thx
NEWYORKER, I hope everything is working now. If it isn’t please still post on the forum and also send in support.
Sincerely
Vee
mellyreed, you have written some very good examples, thanks for taking the time to write so extensively your understanding of this issue.
It certainly has me delving into the doctrine of God, this is a good thing!
Thanks again!
Vee
[...] been there done that, and I continue doing that! It’s all about the tension… see my last post. As Calvin rightly points out… our motives should be right, and we should always be praying [...]
Vee, I’m glad it was helpful to you. I have to confess that there are many hard lessons in that essay that God taught me. I have been blessed with teachers, some dead, some still living, who were and are solid in the faith by their teachings and it showed/shows in their lives. And there have been “teachers” who were opposed of God whom He also used…as painful as that was. God’s word really is that “..2-edged sword that reveals the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Heb 4:12) More and more recently, I see that our spiritual leaders, many of them but not all, are trying to get us to see that left to our own devices, we would not choose to do right on our own (this was the problem the Israelites had to recognize in their relationship with God). God has to even draw us to the Son, repentence even has to be granted to us (2 Tim 2:26). How often the “desert” scenario is used in the BIble where leaders are prepared before God can even make proper use of them. Along this same line, I was reminded of the old story “The Lord of the Flies” and what happens to the boys in the end. The same can be said of us: without God’s invisible hand holding back our own propensity for destruction of others and self-destruction, as the scriptures say “no flesh would be saved.”( Mark 13:20, Matt 24:22). There is that moment that we are brought recognition that we can’t even take credit for making the decision to come to Christ - we realize how much help we have had in doing even that from the love of One who loves us so much as to “woo” us in our “deserts” to the oasis of His love.
[...] Journey posted her hair-pulling frustration at studying Calvinism, Arminianism and Open Theism: Feeling the Tension, and has my deepest [...]
Very interesting articles on your site.
I admire you for your devotion to discernment and biblical truths. It’s encouraging to see that there are still those who are awake and have their lamps trimmed and have plenty of oil on hand (know the Word). So very many today are scripturally illiterate, have no prayer life, and take every question to a man instead of God! May God have mercy on them.
I was raised Arminian, studied Calvinism, and cannot reconcile either completely with scripture. Therefore I have chosen to follow what God has revealed in His Word rather than what men tell me. So many of the beliefs today’s Christians have are man-made, like Good Friday, Heaven as a reward, the Rapture and a second chance during or after the “Tribulation”, Eternal and Unconditional Security, and so on.
I think you would agree on these points that we are very clearly told in God’s Word that we must do :
1. Believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God
2. Believe that He died a substitutionary death for all who believe in Him and rose again to guarantee His power to make us live forever in Him
3. Repent of our rebellion and disobedience to God
4. Call on the name of the Lord and be baptized into the likeness of His death and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38 and Titus 3:5)
5. Live holy lives of submission to His will
6. Put God first and acknowledge Him in everything we do
7. Love others and do them no wrong, but rather help anyone you can, whenever you can
8. Hold fast to the doctrine and faith - ” lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the Living God” Heb 3:12 and “But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. “Revelation 2:25
9. Confess all sins and “…by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
Romans 2:7
10. and lastly, “Pray without ceasing”
God bless you and your efforts to keep people apprised of the rampant false doctrine so many are buying into!
NWProdigal…
Thanks for your encouragement. I really appreciate it.
With all the points you have made I find myself in complete agreement. Unfortunately, these points are being made less and less in our post-modern (although I think that we have moved on from that) and pluralistic society.
I have lately been having a discussion on the Ravi Zacharias speaking at the Mormon Tabernacle controversy. And one thing I have noticed is that in this pluralistic society the truth can be heard, but heard from only ones perspective. This makes clearer statements a necessity at some point when we are to evangelise.
There has been some talk of two types of evangelising. One is called ‘Confrontational Evangelising’ and the other called ‘Relational Evangelising’.
The Church and it’s leaders should try and find the balance, and it must also know when to use either method. What method works best in a pluralistic society that needs to be shaken up to the fact there is such thing as absolutism that has been written in the Word of God? The Apostate Church has fallen prey to pluralism and the outcome of that is changing certain fundamental truths.
I may even make a post on this at some point.
Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to comment.
Vee
Vee,
Thanks for your kind words.
I too, struggle with knowing how to evangelize. I realize that most people are so distracted these days by the concerns of life and the ever present distraction of entertainment (I think Satan is referred to as the “the prince of the power of the air” for this reason) that it’ll take a disaster of national or personal proportion to wake them up. I use public transportation and am appalled at how anti-social and withdrawn people have become. I am 51 years old and I can’t remember people being so isolated, even in public, in the past.
I look for opportunities, but I struggle to find them. So, naturally, I feel like I should make more of an effort, but confrontation seems so counter-productive to me. I was blind myself only a year and a half ago, so I remember how I reacted to overt Christianity. I was won to Christ by His interrupting my life and making me realize that material success is fleeting rather than by anyone personally evangelizing me. I’ll qualify that by saying I was raised in a church, but it was a terrible experience for me.
Anway, thanks again and I really appreciate your “studying to show yourself approved”.
God bless you!
I thought that this was good as it explains RE and CE a little more…
I just had a thought, a light bulb moment.
I asked just before the question…
What method works best in a pluralistic society that needs to be shaken up to the fact there is such thing as absolutism that has been written in the Word of God?
Realistically, pluralism denies absolutism. Pluralism says that no one system of values should have priority over another. In this denial of absolutism, it has set it’s own absolute value as a priority, hasn’t it?
I remember a friend saying that our culture insists that every view point is valid, except the view of Christ Jesus being the only view point… or something along those lines.
Vee
NWProdigal,
It would seem that what you have said in the following:
>>I too, struggle with knowing how to evangelize. I realize that most people are so distracted these days by the concerns of life and the ever present distraction of entertainment (I think Satan is referred to as the “the prince of the power of the air” for this reason) that it’ll take a disaster of national or personal proportion to wake them up. I use public transportation and am appalled at how anti-social and withdrawn people have become. I am 51 years old and I can’t remember people being so isolated, even in public, in the past.<<
is what God is preparing us for. The scriptures tell us what will happen…but not necessarily how or how soon. I agree with you that there is something on the horizon, something has shifted in a larger way. As Galadriel says at the beginning of Tolkein’s trilogy: “I feel it in the water.” All that we are going through, though hard on us, too, is God getting others to see their need for Christ. Sometimes He does that with very personal plagues of our own making and choice, but He also does it through the world at large, too. How do you wake up the world so self-involved? For some, as with Pharoah, it will take something very hard and horrible indeed. Our temptation is to always wish to be exempt from the fallout in such a case. But that is not what our Father has chosen to do because we are the light of the world. How do we stand in victory against, isolation, loneliness, hardship, treachery, brutality, injustice and point to the Way, Jesus? They are watching us, out of the corner of their eye, from behind the newspaper, in the food courts, online. They are watching. And they are hoping to see Jesus in us, though they be harsh judges at times. So let us pray and fast to get out of the way of our nature and let them see His. The time is so short and the cruelty we see now and will see more of in the future is something we can’t let distract us. Just as Jesus did, let us focus on one person at a time, prayed for as the Holy Spirit directs. Just keep asking: who next Lord? Bring someone into my path that needs to hear your word and is ready to hear it.
Thanks again for writing and sharing what you did.
God bless you, Melly
Dear Vee and Melly,
I’m amazed that so many women are involved in this work of being “watchmen on the wall”!
It makes me consider that even as many of the men were failing to lead Israel during the time of Deborah in Judges 4, so it is today. I believe in male leadership as a God ordained example, but I also recognizze that God will also raise up women to do the men’s work if there are no men to do it.
I’m in the middle of a class on evangelism and am learning a lot (mostly about myself), and have been more of a CE in times past. However, I am now beginning to see that RE is the more loving and involving way to witness. People will be more responsive to the gospel if it’s offered in love and not as just “the right idea”. I love apologetics, but most people just want to see the love of God expressed in our lives. My wife has been a big help in my being able to understand that words without a relationship mean very little to people today.
One thing I really admired was her suggestion that when and if I see someone who is obviously upset, angry, or just extremely sad, to just approach them and ask “What can I do for you to make your day better?” and be committed to doing that for them, as much as possible. Therein, we give them the opportunity to ask “Why?” and we can then share the gospel.
Another thing I’ve employed that works very well is this: I carry a book I’m reading or am familiar with that has a controversial or intriguing title. “Grace Works” was a good one, and “AfterLife” by F.Lagard Smith is another great conversation starter. Anything that seems to question Christianity also helps to get a conversation started. This also proves my other point; that what we see Jesus doing during His evangelizing was:
1. Healing and teaching those who CAME to Him
2. Correcting those who CHALLENGED Him, with scripture
3. Speaking to those the religious pietists ignored
and
4. Insisting that people figure out what the truth was by giving them a PICTURE story
I believe we are close upon the night when no one can work and that God is standing by to save those who are SEEKING truth.
God bless both of you, and protect us all through faith in Christ.
NWP
3.
NWProdigal,
Thank you for your words of kindness, encouragment and blessing. I am just a fellow worshipper of the Lord but I, too, believe in men-ordained leadership. I am homebound, so most of my witnessing is done online. What you say is true: it is more effective for us to be able to reach out to others and show them the love of Christ in a relationship way. One of the reasons, that I am in my current situation is that I failed to do that for someone I love in a consistant manner, though I had done so for others. I was ill and fatigued and I could not see beyond that to their need. Unfortunately, it was a critical point for them and it caused them to sin. What I write now, I write as much as for the lessons that I was taught and learned as I do for any of my readers. I feel the need to say somethng for my Lord everyday…as best as I hope I can. There’s so little that I am able to give now. At least it seems so little. Thank you for your blessing. You don’t know how much it means, God bless you and your family.
I too believe in men-ordained leadership. I thank you both for your kind words and I appreciate that you both take the time to come here to this lowly blog to comment.
Speaking about evangelising… just yesterday I was in the city and saw this elderly man standing on the corner of a busy road. Telling everyone that Jesus Christ is coming back soon etc. I know my son has had conversations with this man a few years ago (my son is now saved, Praise the LORD) this elderly man isn’t loud about it, but you can still hear that his message is an urgent one. I think that we all work differently as we are different parts of the body. I am sure he does reach some who have walked past who are having questions that are in need to be answered.
A ministry that I have great respect for is the’ Way of the Master’, they do challenge people into thinking about their own lives and their sin. It is done in a way that is very loving and low key, but is still confronts them with the Truth of God and His Word.
Here is the web-site, you may like to check out some of the video’s.
http://www.wayofthemaster.com/
They help teach you and give you the tools to witness to people in the 21st century.
This is very important, because a lot of people out there don’t even know that there is such a thing as sin. I remember talking to one lady and she said that she doesn’t consider that she needs a saviour to save her because of her sin because she believes that she doesn’t sin. She is a good citizen etc… and doesn’t do anything wrong against people of society at large. This was the first time I came across this type of thinking, and to be honest I couldn’t understand it at the time.
Here is a blurb from the Australian site….
Dear Melly,
God bless and reward you for your presence on the Web! It has been encouraging to me to see that there are people who stand for the truth in spite of all the popular trends that lead people away from God.
and Vee,
I am familiar with WOTM, and while I applaud their efforts to wake people up to their need and the reality that all of them need a saviour, I have some issues with their approach. I have written them asking why they don’t, in any way, emphasize baptism of believers, even in their tracts. I have never received a reply regarding this issue. I find it very disturbing that so many evangelical outreaches do not even mention this commandment as part of a new believer’s list of next steps.
You know how some legalistic churches claim Peter and Paul advocate that women not wear jewelry or braid their hair or wear makeup? Neither were saying a woman could not do any of those things, but that those things shouldn’t be what believing women should concentrate their efforts on. The same twisting of scripture occurs with Peter’s statement in 1 Peter 3:21 “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (ESV).
To me, Peter is saying exactly what he means. Baptism is not taking a bath; it is the act of appealing to God for the cleansing of our conscience, i.e, the forgiveness of sins. There are just too many other clear allusions to baptism being a necessary thing, for me to be comfortable with the way so many give it barely even a nod. The clincher for me was that when the Holy Spirit sent Philip to meet up with the Ethiopian eunuch, Philip wasn’t removed from the scene until just after the eunuch was baptized. I don’t think you can find a clearer example of “Mission Completed” than Acts 8:39!!
In any case, I think that any approach to reach out to the lost is of God, as long as they are being told the whole truth. There is simply too much legalism (which I’m sure some would accuse me of, but Christ commands baptism, not I) and antinomianism being taught and tolerated in the churches these days. Unfortunately, many are convinced that religiosity is all they need and that is a business career for many hireling ministers!
Sorry for the rant, but it’s something I’ve come to feel strongly about.
God bless you both!